A case for a extenseable namespace in XML&RSS

Hey! It aint that hard!

Postby SOD » 01/04/03, 3:16 pm

Found this
http://www.mnot.net/rss/tutorial/#RSS09x
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/

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<font class=editedby>[ This Message was edited by: SOD on 2003-01-04 23:18 ]</font>
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Postby bob » 01/05/03, 3:45 pm

I'm about ready to call for a break between all the other xml dtd's and rss 0.091 for the purpose of headline syndication.

These others simply aren't useful for the purpose--they waste bandwidth and cpu cycles while they make parsing about 100 times more complex than it need be.

Perhaps the rss 0.91, which is the default standard for headline syndication, should be used for just that.... All the other xml varieties can be used for whatever you want, but if you want to transmit headlines.... Well, there's a simple standard......

RSS 0.91 allows images, descriptions, links.... and the headlines themselves.... What more do you need for content syndication?

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<font class=editedby>[ This Message was edited by: bob on 2003-01-05 23:47 ]</font>
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Postby SOD » 01/05/03, 7:49 pm

From the links you gave me there is a diff between
a RDF spec and what as known as "simple" RSS. (after reading yesterday till I went blind)....But ya gotta look toward the future. For code to survive or any other technology for that matter it has to move forward it has to be progressive. There is a thread and and article posted at ffungi today that talks about adding class and data type to XML. In other words heaping rules on XML instead of letting its content based nature drive innovation. There will be a module dtd created for the dual use of a RSS file.(RDF already has a mod for this) Backwards compatable to 0.91 but it will also include the tags I created which allow the use of .091 to serve a dual purpuse in simple RSS. Code must progress and move forward. Thanks again for helping out Bob.
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Postby bob » 01/06/03, 2:03 am

You miss my point, Sod. For the single purpose I'm suggesting, Code is already far advanced. Don't confuse content for a headline site with complex databasing....... Don't make me download 20 kb, when one will do. Don't jam up my cpu with complex parsing. I don't remember who said it, but it's true: "Never trust content received from another site"
WYSIWTF
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Postby SOD » 01/06/03, 10:43 am

I understand RDF content and DBs that is not a problem.
See:
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/2321
The thread is just scarry.
I agree, though what people consider RSS 1.0 or RDF or whatever has produced funkenstein news sources. The RSS folks admit that 0.91 is sideways compatable with RSS 1.0 but these two "simple" tags just make since. In a smaller or descrete scope they can be used to manage local and remote content. In a larger scope they provide direct source credit for the article. It respects the content orginator. I would like to also see a 'seealso' tags for additional source references to the article topic. This would expand the scope of use for the syndicator and source. (consider them footnotes) Problem is can we stop there? Every good idea needs scope and evaluation.
<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class=postbody>Quote:</font><HR width=100% color=#333333 SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class=quote><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2003-01-06 10:03, bob wrote:
For the single purpose
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=100% color=#333333 SIZE=1></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->
That quote could be the problem. The RDF people are at one end of the spectrum that stuff is out there. The more you read the stranger it gets.
But for all the hyperbole it is for their single narrow purpose. Simple syndication suffers from the samething. WHY can't content code, content, or whatever serve a dual purpose? Good code does and is a indication of good programming habits. But what a programmer also understands is scope. Or a rational evaluation of model to a given set of parameters and how far they can extend that model before it goes to hell. I understand the "single purpose" approach from your perspective Bob. It saves you from parsing nonsense from people that have not learned what scope is. But should we dumb it down or just turn up the knowledge. Now where is that volume control?:-) Didn't most Dinosaurs serve a single purpose or function. What happened with them?
BTW my RSS with the extra tags is currantly 2.7kb. This method has curbed the blah blah related to the article. Gives a brief description and gets to the reason you came to my site in the first place. To find the article source. So it also formats style.
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Postby bob » 01/06/03, 11:12 am

<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class=postbody>Quote:</font><HR width=100% color=#333333 SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class=quote><BLOCKQUOTE>WHY can't content code, content, or whatever serve a dual purpose? </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=100% color=#333333 SIZE=1></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->

It can--but then you're wasting my bandwidth and fouling my parser. Didn't this whole conversation start with an rdf file where someone was sending me 20 kb of data, and all I'd ever use was just one kb?

See http://www.shellcity.net/phpBB/viewtopi ... &forum=7&4

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<font class=editedby>[ This Message was edited by: bob on 2003-01-06 19:13 ]</font>
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Postby SOD » 01/06/03, 8:25 pm

<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class=postbody>Quote:</font><HR width=100% color=#333333 SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class=quote><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2003-01-06 19:12, bob wrote:
<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class=postbody>Quote:</font><HR width=100% color=#333333 SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class=quote><BLOCKQUOTE>WHY can't content code, content, or whatever serve a dual purpose? </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=100% color=#333333 SIZE=1></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->
It can--but then you're wasting my bandwidth and fouling my parser.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=100% color=#333333 SIZE=1></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->
HTML has no place embedded within a news syndication format.
Yeah for 20 KB EXACTLY. I can write a small app in that amount of space. So where does it end? Can't there be a middle ground?
A well balanced doc on the dos and dont's on RSS
http://www.mnot.net/rss/tutorial/
The one thing the RDF proponents i think realize but will not talk about is scope. An RDF/semantic type thing is a neat idea but given the current social and code cultures and ethics its scope is very narrow and does not make for good syndication. I guess the point is a middle ground that allows for growth.

<font class=editedby>[ This Message was edited by: SOD on 2003-01-07 04:28 ]</font>
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