More on Assange

Security, malware, viri--you've got to keep your eyes open

Postby RedRage » 12/28/10, 1:32 am

I don't think so but that's just my opinion on the documents themselves.

as far as the people.. just more "little people" with delusions of greatness.

at least though it does give people something to talk about.
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Postby bob » 12/28/10, 2:49 am

I can't see one valid argument that posting these documents for everyone to see in a manner like this is a good thing.


Here you go (read the whole article):

"Secrecy is routinely posited as a critical component for effective governance, a premise that’s so widely accepted that even some journalists, whose job is to reveal the secret workings of governments, have declared WikiLeaks’ efforts to be out of bounds."

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/1 ... editorial/

And this page:

http://sowhyiswikileaksagoodthingagain.com/

Every time you reload it, it gives a different reason why Wikileaks is a good thing: A few of the reasons:

WikiLeaks has revealed illegal government wiretapping in Canada. August 6th, 2010

http://bsnorrell.blogspot.com/2010/08/w ... etaps.html

WikiLeaks exposed how the U.S. pressured Spain to drop the case of a cameraman that was killed in a 2003 attack on journalists in Baghdad. December 1st, 2010

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/1/u ... drop_casel


WikiLeaks revealed Al-Qaeda's deadly exploitation of children in Iraq. October 23rd, 2010

http://www.iraqwarlogs.com/2010/10/23/a ... -children/

And on and on it goes
Last edited by bob on 12/28/10, 3:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Don_U » 12/28/10, 2:49 am

Like a lot of stuff on the web it is phenomena this is one of them.
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Postby RedRage » 12/28/10, 6:04 am

bob wrote:
I can't see one valid argument that posting these documents for everyone to see in a manner like this is a good thing.


Here you go (read the whole article):

"Secrecy is routinely posited as a critical component for effective governance, a premise that’s so widely accepted that even some journalists, whose job is to reveal the secret workings of governments, have declared WikiLeaks’ efforts to be out of bounds."

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/1 ... editorial/

And this page:

http://sowhyiswikileaksagoodthingagain.com/

Every time you reload it, it gives a different reason why Wikileaks is a good thing: A few of the reasons:

WikiLeaks has revealed illegal government wiretapping in Canada. August 6th, 2010

http://bsnorrell.blogspot.com/2010/08/w ... etaps.html

WikiLeaks exposed how the U.S. pressured Spain to drop the case of a cameraman that was killed in a 2003 attack on journalists in Baghdad. December 1st, 2010

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/1/u ... drop_casel


WikiLeaks revealed Al-Qaeda's deadly exploitation of children in Iraq. October 23rd, 2010

http://www.iraqwarlogs.com/2010/10/23/a ... -children/

And on and on it goes


still not seeing it. Its not that i don't care but me knowing gets nothing done.. quite frankly any of us knowing means nothing.. what will we do about it.. i'll tell you.

first we will read the thing.. then we'll post a comment on the site we saw it on .. then we'll go to some forum and then tell everyone there about it, debate it with people, none of which an do a damn thing about it. we'll bitch and complain for a year or so then some shitty legislation gets passed to calm us down cost us billions of dollars and they're going to do shit anyway. combine that with the damage done by "leaking" these documents... well you see where i'm going.

Now lets say we take this same document to the right people who can do something about it and then tell us about it after wards well that works for me.

this is real life serious stuff not passing notes in class
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Postby bob » 12/28/10, 6:49 am

but me knowing gets nothing done


Beats not knowing--how much gets done then?

Now lets say we take this same document to the right people who can do something about it and then tell us about it after wards well that works for me.



Who are these people? A secret commission somewhere? A police department that investigates itself? A pentagon that has its own internal investigation? Like I asked before -- how's that working?
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Postby RedRage » 12/28/10, 8:56 am

bob wrote:
but me knowing gets nothing done


Beats not knowing--how much gets done then?


nothing gets done, no wasted resources either. It's all through the media, Jullian now has charges on him for an unrelated issue but if he wasn't in the media i bet those charges wouldn't be there, either made up by some government or some women try'n to get money/fame, only those involved know for sure.

and still.. nothing will be done except waste our resources... for right or wrong Jullian and maybe some of his fellow leakers will see some Jail time

Now lets say we take this same document to the right people who can do something about it and then tell us about it after wards well that works for me.


Who are these people? A secret commission somewhere? A police department that investigates itself? A pentagon that has its own internal investigation? Like I asked before -- how's that working?


There are plenty of people who may care about tapping in Canada... specifically the Canadians... you tell them give them the info. If they care then they can do something about it.

or maybe, dare i say... the UN?

If these leakers really gave a shit about the world or these issues they could do so much better with the information they obtained.

and the last link... about the children.. that is common knowledge (i thought).. hell when i was young i learned it.. i think it was from a rambo movie.

BTW heres a few more of why wiki leaks is good

WikiLeaks revealed the previously unreported deaths of four Canadian soldiers at the hands of U.S. friendly fire in Afghanistan.

It's sad but it happens its war. If you want people to not die in war... don't wage war... as if...

WikiLeaks revealed how Iran devised suicide weaponry for Al-Qaeda use in Iraq.

um.. duh. i'm sure most people already knew elements in Iran was helping Al-Qeada before this October block buster news story.

WikiLeaks has revealed hundreds of significant Afghanistan war incidents that were hidden by the U.S. government.

and im sure there are hundreds more

The documents released by WikiLeaks have convinced the UN to call for investigations into human rights violations.


SEE!!! stuff like this SHOULD have went right to the UN. do not pass go blah blah blah... Then once the investigation is going bring out the info.

WikiLeaks ended the corrupt rule of the Arap-Moi family in Kenya.
LOL really? delusions of greatness

WikiLeaks has shown how US-funded Iraqi militias switched their allegiance to Al-Qaeda.

yup, duh

Point is... about half the stuff i clicked i figured people already knew before the so called release of the info. another bunch are like well... yeah who cares and a few that prolly should've went to someone who could do something about the issue before it was made public. Wikileaks doesn't make that distinction they just throw it up there call themselves awesome and ask for donations.
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Postby Don_U » 12/28/10, 12:16 pm

You don't understand what this is about Red.

Further you look to diminish the value of the information by creating a supposition that half of the information "everybody knew" and the rest wasn't worth knowing. Nice try.

Oh and haven't you heard, information can bring down world leaders. First it was Agnew, then vice president
got nailed for corrupt construction contracts (A documented time line was in US News and World Report) then of course there was NIXON DUDE! These are obvious examples. Where were you? Watching Rambo, really?

Passive censorship seems to be alive and well.
Now you have to sign up to view this but I will link it anyway. Oh yeah, it was Wikileaks who broke it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU ... verified=1

War happens, war crimes should not.
I don't wish to hear any excuses about their actions this was a WAR CRIME. I spent 5 fucking years identifying and acquiring military targets that was NOT an RPG.
These were rationalizing blood thursty murderers not
people protecting us. The stupid fuckers.

LT William Calley went to prison for the massacre at Mi Lia. That copter crew did not do time.

The point is Red, transparent information, acted on overtly or viewed passively changes things.

10 million ppl can't be wrong, but you are.
I never look back, dahling, it distracts from the now -Edna Mode
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Postby bob » 12/28/10, 4:56 pm

The point is Red, transparent information... changes things.


Don_U has got it right. It's just the truth, Red.
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Postby JohnT » 12/28/10, 10:08 pm

bob wrote:
The point is Red, transparent information... changes things.


Don_U has got it right. It's just the truth, Red.

It only changes for those that govern themselves. Not just at Bob but at all who think transparency changes things.....yea transparency changes things....I'm living in a part of the world where transparency can get you killed..or at the very least possibly missing. Nice change. We can stand on that transparency soapbox as Americans all we want. We've been doing it for hundreds of years and are more practiced in calling out the name of freedom than anyone else. There are places that have never know that taste of life as we fully know it and most likely never will.
I've been living in Russia now for 6 years and know this place and the people well......look here and tell me we are so deprived in America when it comes to transparency. Mr. Assange please elevate us to a much higher level of transparency....I beg of you. :lol:
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Postby bob » 12/28/10, 11:16 pm

Yep, see what you mean, John. That's a very interesting website you point to, which pretty much makes the same point as Don_U and I. But of course, the danger increases as the current transparency level of the environment lessens. It's a lot easier for Don and I than for many others.
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Postby RedRage » 12/29/10, 12:00 am

Truth is good.. I live my life by being as honest as possible, unless its funny then i may stretch it.

Yes, if you didn't know that some of the Iraq troops we trained and equipped where Al-Qeada operatives then well you need to catch up. See things like this, they posted it and I don't care if its there or not cause apparently a lot of people didn't know, To me its old news. Like our Iraq "friends" driving up to enter a base they've been working at with us only to blow up the car at the guard station?

How about the report where Al-Qeada was making a dirty chemical weapon? Is that one in there? you know the time where they where putting it together had an accident and killed most everyone in the camp? Must be southern politics.

Wikileaks is not US News or world report, comparing them to some sort of Journalism is way out of line.. and I wasn't around during Nixon and these are far different times.

I'm not signing up for youtube right now but i assume its people getting gunned down..

War happens, horrible mistakes happen and also, sad to say, so do a few nut jobs. The people responsible should be punished according to international law. should we know about it YES, but there is a thing called procedure throwing all this information out there prematurely could possibly get innocent people hurt and interfere with any investigations already underway. But people like you sees one mistake happen in our military and they're all evil blood thirsty murders is that it? I have many friends and family that served during war time they are not blood thirsty, some even have issues now of having to fire back at people shooting at them. While people are safe in their bases deciding what a military target is they're getting shot at by a snipers in a school.

Its all black and white to you. There are no shades of grey?

I by no means am saying the information should be hidden forever. What I am saying is these Leakers are irresponsible. You do something useful with the information instead of wholesale internet posting like they do. I for one will not propel these people to sainthood like much of the world seems to want to do.

Transparent information is only good in the hands of people who can objectively analyze it and look at it with out bias. I know I am not one of these people on many issues.

10million people (where ever this number came from?) is a small percentage of this countries Internet population, let alone the worlds. the estimated 80 million people in Germany at the start of the second war... well they couldn't be wrong... could they? Not comparing deeds done just pointing out first that not all 10 million people think wikileaks is good and second just because millions are grouped for a single cause doesn't put them in the right.

@John... might want to find a bunker to hide in if/when that transparency comes at least for a few days. But feel good in knowing that Sarha Palin can see you form her house :-D

@Bob and Don_U... I got nothing like this from your previous posts not even close.
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Postby JohnT » 12/29/10, 2:34 am

RedRage wrote:

@John... might want to find a bunker to hide in if/when that transparency comes at least for a few days. But feel good in knowing that Sarha Palin can see you from her house :-D
I better start building one now, if that's the case.
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Postby bob » 12/29/10, 3:40 am

These were rationalizing blood thursty murderers not people protecting us. The stupid fuckers


But people like you sees one mistake happen in our military and they're all evil blood thirsty murders is that it?


OK, I'm done if the conversation's going this direction. I was talking about free information and governmental reform, not personally judging the actions of individuals here.
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Postby JohnT » 12/29/10, 5:11 am

bob wrote:
These were rationalizing blood thursty murderers not people protecting us. The stupid fuckers


But people like you sees one mistake happen in our military and they're all evil blood thirsty murders is that it?


OK, I'm done if the conversation's going this direction. I was talking about free information and governmental reform, not personally judging the actions of individuals here.
Transparency at work.....it's a full-time job but someone has to do it while Assange sleeps. :wink:
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Postby bob » 12/29/10, 5:29 am

Your crack is not well taken, John. It hardly fits the narrative.

Must every conversation turn into a political, right vs. left, mud sling? Don, must you get all fuckin hyper-leftist? Red, must you take the bait? Can't we stay on a reasonable track?

I blame everyone except myself! And now, I'm turning on Robot Chicken....
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