Computer case side fans...

Got my hammer out, and now I'm gonna open the box
AndrewB
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Post by AndrewB » 07/16/02, 5:16 pm

here's something else... with this sink, the chip runs ~ about 95 degrees Farenheight. the system temp is about 70. How does this compare to everyone else's? I have a bad feeling that it should be a lot cooler than that w/ copper shouldnt it? Doesnt seem much different at all from my aluminum one and that had a slower fan too.
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Post by SOD » 07/16/02, 9:01 pm

130-140 is considered undesireable for AMD chips if 70 degrees is the ambient mean then that is acceptable(I have the same ratio of proc temp to ambient temp) also remember AMD chips run hot...Why??? overclock it is a myth and actually you are doing something that introduces instability to the
proc that was not QCed at the factory to run that fast. A new proc is not that expensive. BTW as far as heat sinks go, copper or aluminum in this case have about the conductive properties. Back in the 50s they used to wire houses with aluminum.

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Post by JohnT » 07/17/02, 1:33 am

Mine runs at 29' Celsius, both sensors,(consistently) ambient temps(room) are between 68-72 Fahrenheit. (AMD BTW)
On CPU: Dual Fans,variable speed, w/alum. sink.
One rear case fan: 3 1/2" variable speed.
One vented case drive blank w/HEPA filter.
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<font class=editedby>[ This Message was edited by: JohnT on 2002-07-17 09:53 ]</font>

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Post by JohnT » 07/17/02, 1:43 am

For metals, the thermal conductivity is quite high, and those metals which are the best electrical conductors are also the best thermal conductors. At a given temperature, the thermal and electrical conductivities of metals are proportional,[" but raising the temperature increases the thermal conductivity while decreasing the electrical conductivity."] This behavior is quantified in the Wiedemann-Franz Law:

where the constant of proportionality L is called the Lorenz number. Qualitatively, this relationship is based upon the fact that the heat and electrical transport both involve the free electrons in the metal. The thermal conductivity increases with the average particle velocity since that increases the forward transport of energy. However, the electrical conductivity decreases with particle velocity increases because the collisions divert the electrons from forward transport of charge. This means that the ratio of thermal to electrical conductivity depends upon the average velocity squared, which is proportional to the kinetic temperature.
{BTW the thermal properties of copper are almost twice that of aluminum.}

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<font class=editedby>[ This Message was edited by: JohnT on 2002-07-17 09:45 ]</font>

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Post by JohnT » 07/17/02, 1:55 am

<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class=postbody>Quote:</font><HR width=100% color=#333333 SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class=quote><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2002-07-15 01:42, AndrewB wrote:
<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class=postbody>Quote:</font><HR width=100% color=#333333 SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class=quote><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2002-07-13 13:07, JohnT wrote:
Yes, it's only a phone call away. "Oh, Sparkletts Man".

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=100% color=#333333 SIZE=1></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->
You mean 'Culligan Man' right? :)

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR width=100% color=#333333 SIZE=1></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->

Na, that's only for filteration. We want SUPPLY.

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<font class=editedby>[ This Message was edited by: JohnT on 2002-07-17 09:56 ]</font>

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Post by AndrewB » 07/17/02, 5:29 am

oh ok :wink:
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Post by RedRage » 07/17/02, 5:41 am

ya you have nothing to worry about with the heat right now CPU1 is 120F and CPU2 is at 124F the Case sensor is 102F. I'm just using stock cooling at the moment.

The overclock argument has been going on for years. Some people buy/make expensive cooling systems too cool there box that they over clocked when they just could've take'n that money they spent and upgraded their cpu. Kinda silly if you ask me.

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Post by SOD » 07/17/02, 9:27 am

The blathering physical therory has always amazed me. (it works untill you leave the lab). If you are talking about the THERMAL-CONDUCTIVE properties within the scope of a device or semi-conductor it is the ~same.
The one thing you left out John is that you have to draw some AMPS 100+ before the thermal properties of one material over another are noticed in a everyday situation. In the scope of a heat sink it does not matter. There is design considered when making heat sinks that make *thermal resistance(*which is a measure) a moot point. He he this is fun though. John I have never given much creedence to electrical theory. Even the lab work done with physics
is bound to the contextual nature of the enviroment that created it.
I use the 11-K-754-01 at the bottom of this page
<a href="http://209.58.132.52/products/microp/de ... Processors"> Aavid Thermalloy</a>

John I like the dual fan idea it all comes down to exchange

Just doing some surfing the differience between copper and aluminum is 6 to 15% depending on who you are asking.

A good explantion of case cooling:
http://www.heatsink-guide.com/index.html

<font class=editedby>[ This Message was edited by: SOD on 2002-07-17 17:59 ]</font>

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Post by SOD » 07/17/02, 9:42 am

Whoa is this what you have John -
http://209.58.132.52/products/microp/11klmq06.shtml

Check that graph!

<font class=editedby>[ This Message was edited by: SOD on 2002-07-17 17:42 ]</font>

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Post by SOD » 07/17/02, 9:47 am

Max temp guide for AMD and Intel processorshttp://www.heatsink-guide.com/maxtemp.htm

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Post by AndrewB » 07/17/02, 10:15 am

doesnt seem to matter now... I tried to overclock following the instructions on <a href="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q3/000711/">Tom's Hardware Guide</a>, to no avail. Everything over 800MHz wouldn't even post. I have it running at 800 again :'(
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Post by Guest » 07/17/02, 11:22 am

Good scientific explanation but it it bothered me. I know something was a miss. The defination was correct but what you concluded, that "copper had almost twice the thermal conductance of aluminum" is based on analogy and not physics. As I have said the defination was correct but comparing the properties of
copper to aluminum cannot be done by linear scale.
It has to do with the amount current passed at a given voltage. What is true is that copper and Aluminum can be compared at a given voltage with current and it will produce the result you mentioned. Aluminum can handle quite a bit of current @ 120V before it begins to show signs of degradation that you described. Which is why only an improvement of 6 to 15% is achived using copper at working voltage/current levels in your computer case. At lower levels of voltage/current aluminum is almost as stable.

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Post by Dark Shadow » 07/17/02, 3:57 pm

Ok guys, this is another dumb Q, but if your BIOS doesn't provide an overclocking option (they don't alow you to set the amout of power for your cpu) then is it still possible to overclock without flashing in a new BIOS?

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Post by AndrewB » 07/17/02, 4:16 pm

yes. you dont need to flash at all, unless you're trying to OC higher than your board can currently support. I'm *trying* to OC by changing the physical bridge setup on the CPU itself. God i wish I had a nice Abit or Asus!
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Post by AndrewB » 07/24/02, 5:43 pm

After my many failed OCing and windows dying issues, I've finally got the fan on, and all things considered, it looks pretty damn good.
Its right over my hard drive bays and near my memory, cooling everything down and quite likely feeding a bit of moving air into the heat sink foils. I also repainted the door yellow.

Unfortunately windows died and now I'm redoing everything. the hacks i'd been working on are all lost as well as all my games and documents, but i'll redo them as soon as i can.
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