Who needs this crap?

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Who needs this crap?

Postby Don_U » 11/10/13, 2:42 pm

Some joker from the Hadron Collider now wants to build something bigger.

Big deal, what the hell is so important about trying to use our miniscule brain power to understand the universe. Are we trying to show that we are as smart as anything else in the universe. Get REAL. WE can't even get people to wipe their own ass correctly. This is analogous to a dust mite having an understanding of the world around him.

Here is a clue, there are thousands (millions) of sub-atomic particles that do different jobs. All you have to do is look at the systemic nature of life. It is as if they have surmised from the 'God Particle' that there is a root to our physical existence and the building blocks of the universe. What a joke.

We give a shit load of money to these endeavors and they produce no practical outcome zip, nada, for HUMANITY. Now they wish to build a bigger one which is bullshit. They can't power up the capacity they have. Even with the micro signal experiments they do(which is relative to the scope of the universe), by their own admission they need something bigger and bigger and bigger. It is folly, we simply do not have the scope to accomplish anything tangible on a insignificant planet that is not even a footnote to the universe.

Meanwhile, everyday more and more money is being spent on war over three trillion to date. How much healthcare can u buy with that? I still have to teach kids how to give themselves an insulin shot or have to watch as cancer or some other god awful illness snatches the life from them. A 36 billion cut in feeding people here while we give 41 billion to Israel.

The biggest mystery of the universe for us is how after millions of years and zillions of research dollars we still can't take care of each other. We are the punch line of the Galaxy.

Oh yeah, the article link.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013 ... n-collider

Just BULLSHIT
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby bob » 11/10/13, 11:24 pm

>>>>We give a shit load of money to these endeavors and they produce no practical outcome zip, nada, for HUMANITY


If it weren't for what's called quantum theory, and accompanying experimentation, you wouldn't have the computer you're writing your posts on--it's made of and manipulates atoms and even subatomic particles, like electrons, etc. Quantum theory is what the HC advances. You may see no advantage to the discovery of the Higgs Boson immediately (actually, it's not the Boson which matters so much, but rather the fact that the discovery of the particle proves the existence of the Higgs field), but my guess is there are great possibilities. Only wild speculation here... but the Higgs field is what gives mass to the rest of the matter particles... now what could we do if we could manipulate mass at the subatomic level....? Lots of things come to mind.... perhaps even gravity could be manipulated.
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby RedRage » 11/11/13, 5:04 am

its a lot of money but if you are going to spend it real research is the way to go.

research from the LHC and other facilities are paving the way for future humans.. hopefully they'll stumble on a clean(er) energy solution that could actually work for the whole planet... of course i would like to have my own personal holodeck too.. they should make that yeah.. i think :-)
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby Don_U » 11/12/13, 6:20 pm

I just wonder about the law of diminishing return. It did not take a zillion dollars and a huge atom smasher to build a transistor much less a microprocessor array. Maybe I am just thinking about scope.
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby bob » 11/12/13, 9:02 pm

"For example, in the first half of the 20th century nobody expected that quantum mechanics would make possible transistors and microchips, mobile phones and computers, lasers and M.R.I. scanners.[25] Radio waves were described by their co-discoverer in 1888 as "an interesting laboratory experiment" with "no useful purpose" whatsoever,[26] and are now used in innumerable ways (radar, weather prediction, medicine, television, wireless computing and emergency response), positrons are used in hospital tomography scans, and special and general relativity which explain black holes also enable satellite-based GPS and satellite navigation ("satnav").[25] Electric power generation and transmission, motors, and lighting, all stemmed from previous theoretical work on electricity and magnetism; air conditioning and refrigeration resulted from thermodynamics. It is impossible to predict how seemingly esoteric knowledge may affect society in the future.[22][24]

"Other observers highlight technological spin-offs from this and related particle physics activities, which have already brought major developments to society. For example, the World Wide Web as used today was created by physicists working in global collaborations on particle experiments at CERN to share their results, and the results of massive amounts of data produced by the Large Hadron Collider have already led to significant advances in distributed and cloud computing, now well established within mainstream services.[23]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

>>>>It did not take a zillion dollars and a huge atom smasher to build a transistor much less a microprocessor array.


Well, yes it did. All those engineering feats were done by scientists standing on he shoulders of giants. It took everything previously known about electrons and electromagnetic fields to build that first transistor. What do you think all that cost? The theorists come first, then the experimentalists, and finally the engineers.
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby Don_U » 11/13/13, 11:54 am

We will have agree to disagree. You are making a relevant comparison instead of a relative one with respect to the conversation. On a brighter note I have contacted New Egg and reserved my personal Holodeck. Of course my purchase at this point is only relevant.
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby RedRage » 11/13/13, 3:24 pm

OMG I hate that phrase, ... Agree to Disagree. Just say that I think you are wrong but either can't back it up OR just don't care any more :-)

But we'll all find out 50 years from now that the whole computer age was spawned from technology on the ship that crashed in Roswell.
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby Don_U » 11/15/13, 9:20 am

Actually it means that we have differing approaches to the conversation. Bob is not wrong. There is no proof of that. His statement about the legacy of scientific experiments aiding the progress of the future is true and valid. However, my statement about scope and outcome is also valid. What we disagree on is what takes priority.

But you are wrong Red, that I am sure of. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL ;-)

Edited to include this article about quantum state and mechanics. This is cool.
Quantum memory 'world record' smashed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24934786
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby bob » 11/18/13, 9:00 pm

Wait a minute, you said:

>>>>We give a shit load of money to these endeavors and they produce no practical outcome zip, nada, for HUMANITY

And yet you don't think you've been proven wrong? WTF? Go back and reread my posts please....
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby Don_U » 11/19/13, 10:11 am

Again SCOPE and not the mouthwash.

So we could discuss space time as this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

Or, I could go to the store and buy children's birthday invitations.
Both describe the same thing. Both are accurate and relative to the scope of the event.
For those of you playing along with the home version they both describe who, what, where, and when. In other words three coordinates and one of time.

Don't confuse relevant history with a relative event. Not all is relative but all is relevant, well, sort of. LOL
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby bob » 11/19/13, 3:05 pm

I call BS. Address the issue
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby Don_U » 11/24/13, 1:14 pm

I just did, as simply as possible. You are a lawyer and were a English teacher. Your aspect comes from your experiences. This is more an anthropological issue than a scientific one. The interesting I like to watch is the phenomena of academic creep. Where in somebody gets a degree in one field and presumes that the methodology to get that degree and its related expertise can be applied elsewhere. It can't. If I hear one more graphic designer say to a client, "Find something you like on the web and I will copy it" I'm going to call B.S. This is not an example of what interactive expression and publishing is.

Here is an example of two sentences that a client sent me that he wanted inserted into his webpage together. He has two baccalaureate degrees and one masters. Sits on a hospital board a bank board and does numerous things at a university. He has Been involved in manufacturing for years. Being a student of the English language you might appreciate it:

"We utilize our manufacturing and administrative experience to insure that associates placed fit within the objectives the organization desires to achieve.", That was paired with this, "We insure that placement of associates mesh with organizational ideals, goals, and required results." I suggested a change in language from "placed" to placement. Placement is part of the subset of the English language that Google understands also it is root to the word placements part of the proper noun in the companies name. He reluctantly did it after having a cow. he pulled the, "I have many degrees and have written many texts" line. Just how do I tell him ideals is not a word and that it creates a ambiguity if you search the line? (not explicit search with quotes but a general search.

What also got me was the line from you, "Standing On The shoulders Of Giants". Scientific discovery just does not work that way. It is just a matter of relative time on our tiny globe that if one person did not discover it someone else would due to things relevance to an event and coincidental discovery. Scientific discovery isn't about eureka moments. It is progressive and iterative and uses complex trial and error to achieve its outcome. Everyone associated with research is at one time or another a theorist, experimenter, and applicator. They are interchangeable. Only history changes that. Just ask Faraday or Henry and to a lessor degree Tesla and Edison. (yeah I know the guy at the Oatmeal worships Tesla) Faraday and Henry's work coincided with other quantum experiments of the day and another post could be written about the contributions of Tesla and Edison.

Then there is the comparative side of this. That is where your scope issue lies. We are consumed with largess.

When I agreed to disagree I was respecting the time that you take to learn things and the relevant outcome based on your life experiences. Although I understand Torte law I still am not an expert. That's your job. Lets just all do our jobs. College degrees are finite.
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby RedRage » 11/24/13, 3:19 pm

Degree != education

I know this because 2 years ago I was at the Doctors office with my father. They all have computers now in every room you know...

Anyway I stepped out to go to the bathroom, when I came back in she is searching my fathers symptoms on google. I watched her for about 5 minutes in amazement.

Clearly no one can know everything, even if they are an 'expert' but still.

I also disagree with discoveries a matter of time.. kinda. Many discoveries are accidents, if those accidents did not happen we might not have microwave technology instead we may have come up with something that produces the same result but uses different science to get there or even nothing at all. If they didn't find the microchips on the Roswell space craft we wouldn't have the step by step increase in computer technology today (standing on giants)

I guess what i'm getting that there is no single way discoveries are made other than, theory and test which is pretty universal no matter what method you use to get there. That is why they want a bigger badder facility so they can test theories and make me a damn holodeck and/or transporter.
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Re: Who needs this crap?

Postby bob » 11/24/13, 8:27 pm

ok, I give up.... The layers of obfuscation are just too thick to transverse. Don, I do hope you realize that cranking out contradictory ideas and making use of twisting semantic wordplay does not convince your audience, even if it somehow allows you to claim a win in an argument. Sophistry is not evidence of straight thinking, only of fear of losing.
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